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RDW onderzoekt 'op hol geslagen' Tesla Model 3 - update

De RDW onderzoekt een Tesla Model 3 die afgelopen december 'op hol geslagen' zou zijn. De auto reed vanuit stilstand plots met hoge snelheid door een slagboom. Tesla ontkent dat er problemen zijn, maar in de VS zijn er meer meldingen.

De RDW heeft het onderzoek ingesteld na vragen van Het Financieele Dagblad. De krant heeft contact met de bestuurder van de desbetreffende auto. Op 19 december is een stilstaande Tesla Model 3 plotseling met hoge snelheid door een slagboom voor een parkeerplaats gereden. De auto raakte een boom en een paal en uiteindelijk de gevel. De bestuurder raakte daarbij lichtgewond; de klap werd opgevangen door de airbag.

Volgens het FD ging het om een nieuwe Model 3 die tien dagen eerder was opgehaald. In Nederland zijn voor zover bekend geen andere meldingen van Tesla's die plotseling accelereren, maar in de VS zijn er meer van soortgelijke klachten. Het FD publiceerde daar eerder over en schreef dat er zeker 110 incidenten met willekeurige acceleraties bekend zijn.

Tesla ontkent de problemen zowel in Nederland als in de VS. De bestuurder van de Nederlandse Tesla heeft nadat de krant zich met de zaak bemoeid had, data verkregen van de automaker. Daaruit zou blijken dat de bestuurder tijdens het incident het gaspedaal drie keer heeft ingedrukt, 'waarvan eenmaal tot 38 procent'. Volgens de RDW 'komt dat niet overeen met de beleving van de bestuurder' en wordt daarom onderzoek gedaan.

De Amerikaanse National Highway Traffic Safety Administration onderzoekt volgens Reuters klachten over de plotseling versnellende Tesla's, maar heeft nog niet besloten of er ook daadwerkelijk een onderzoek komt.

Tesla meldt in een reactie aan Tweakers: "We hebben dit incident onderzocht en vastgesteld dat er geen sprake is van een technisch mankement aan het voertuig. We hebben de data vorige week reeds gedeeld met de bestuurder en verder toegelicht.”

Door Julian Huijbregts

Nieuwsredacteur

10-02-2020 • 15:28

543 Linkedin

Submitter: jpsch

Reacties (543)

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Dit verhaal is al zeer vaak voorbij gekomen in de US (lang leve verzekeringsclaims) en zijn altijd bewezen als 'gebruikers fout'. Een gast die veel door de Tesla firmware graaft (Tesla hacker) heeft deze claims ook onderzocht namens verzekering bedrijven:

“I've done hardware and software design/engineering for nearly two decades. For clarification, I don't look at what are officially considered ‘EDRs.’ I decode the proprietary logging format Tesla uses, which contains far more information than is available from the SRS EDR data. However, there's no report or anything. It's raw data. For the majority of the cases I've examined, I've agreed not to share the data publicly. For the few without an explicit agreement, some discretion is at least implied.

To that end, I've examined logs from 29 accident vehicles to date, 19 of which were third-party unintended acceleration related – several for direct customers, over a dozen for a particular insurance company. One hundred percent of them were pedal misapplication. The driver was pressing the accelerator pedal commanding the acceleration, and then in most cases, eventually braked and stopped the car. In two cases, the driver actually never touched the brake, but the obstacle or airbag deployment prevented further movement of the vehicle.”


Hoewel hij het niet altijd eens is met Tesla, geeft hij wel aan dat het vrijwel niet mogelijk is dat dit fout gaat aan de software zijde:

“The drive units contain at least three distinct pieces of hardware that all simultaneously crosscheck any pedal input. The pedal hardware itself contains two independent sensors that must agree as well. This way, only a genuine pedal input will cause torque to be commanded. There are additional crosschecks of this in other modules as well, such as the ABS.

While Tesla is far from perfect, the powertrain control setup, specifically related to these sudden acceleration claims, is something they deserve a lot of credit on. It's a solid system, with a ton of thought put into how to make it as safe as possible. There's plenty of things to call out where Tesla has done something outright stupid, or dare I say it unethical, over the years... But this just isn't one of them. They've done this right.”

Bron:
https://insideevs.com/new...a-tesla-cases-impossible/
https://www.teslarati.com...nded-acceleration-claims/

Mijn persoonlijke mening: Mensen krijgen een mooie nieuwe lease auto maar in plaats van een dweil krijgt men nu een Porsche 911 Turbo. Dan moet je niet opkijken als er een paar uit de bocht vliegen....
Je kunt namelijk ook prima 'chill' mode aanzetten, dan heb je geen heftige acceleratie.
Hier de originele bron van al die informatie: https://teslamotorsclub.c...14650/page-4#post-2721449

Integraal voor het nageslacht:

Tesla's accelerator pedal is actually the exact same drive-by-wire pedal used in several other manufacturer's vehicles. It's highly proven technology over decades. Nothing special at this point. No Tesla secret sauce here. Just two hall effect sensors with slightly different curves for redundancy and position validation. If they don't agree, the car doesn't move. If one has an issue, the car reduces power and gives an error. I've personally never seen one of these throttle assemblies have a problem because they're literally as basic as these things can get. It's plastic, a spring to return the pedal to rest, and two hall effect sensors for positioning. They're rock solid on reliability and used in millions of vehicles.

Tesla's side for sensing this goes even further to improve safety. They have two independent systems monitoring and logging the pedal sensors, isolated from one another. They both log the read position from both sensors. If anything doesn't exactly agree, the car doesn't move, gives an error, and reduces power to the point where you can barely do 0-60 in a minute.

The autopilot side of things also is not capable of accelerating the car at any major speed. The AP system just tells the motor, "this is how fast I want to be going and this is how quickly I want to get there" and the inverter firmware maps out a curve to get the car there based on the data, clamped internally to extremely reasonable values as far as acceleration goes. (Deceleration is another story, since AP is capable of commanding full regen and full braking.) The fastest AP can do 0-60 on its own is pretty pathetic, overall. I've tried it. The car will not launch even when commanded to go to 90 MPH at max longitudinal acceleration rate. It just gradually ramps speed, just as if you were at a light behind a vehicle with AP engaged. Nothing sudden about it.

I went a step further and modified the section of inverter code that limits the acceleration rate. No dice. The two other systems inside the drive unit immediately sent the system into limp mode when I tried to command massive acceleration digitally. To be able to do a full digital launch with no pedal application I had to modify the firmware in three different systems to bypass probably two dozen different safety checks. Long story short, it's simply not possible for the car to command massive acceleration on its own.

Going even further, the throttle map for acceleration is super accurate. It can interpolate 2^16 throttle positions with reasonable accuracy... which is impressive, since the ADC is technically something like 10-bit, and we're working with a throw distance of maybe a couple of inches at the end of the pedal. (Edit: Correction/clarification: The crosscheck ADC is 10-bit, the primary is actually 16-bit and doubled for redundancy on each input... so the throttle position is actually read 8 times in hardware for comparison.)

Finally, if the brake is applied, three different devices report this. There's the brake pedal switch, the iBooster, and the ESP modules. All are able to sense and report brake pedal application, and the three systems in the drive unit accept these in a binary OR fashion (if any report the brake is applied, the brake is applied). If the brake is applied even a tiny bit, the car is incapable of accelerating at full power. At best, if the accelerator is already pressed, the car will apply something like 5% of power for about a second before fully cutting power due to both pedals being applied. Those that think they had their foot on the brake and suddenly accelerated, try it yourself. Go somewhere safe with open space in front of you, apply the brake, and mash the accelerator. You'll either go no where, or at most move at super low power for less than a second (depending on the exact internal state of the system, which would be too complicated to get into full detail here).


Overall, I have a lot of beef with Tesla over many things... but this is one aspect where they did their homework and did it right. I'd argue that Tesla's throttle setup is probably at least twice as safe if not more than any other drive-by-wire throttle system out there. There are some many independent checks that it is just impossible for the car to do something like full acceleration without the drive explicitly commanding it, either intentionally or unintentionally, via the throttle pedal.

Of course, humans are going to human... and thus never fully accept responsibility for their actions or mistakes when there is a way to push that onto someone or something else. But my advice is to just get over it, keep the car in chill mode, and move on. In this particular case, your wife made a mistake, caused some damage to the vehicle, and that's the end of it. No sense trying to argue otherwise... especially in the case of a Tesla vehicle with its extensive logging and redundancy. Should someone ever take such a case to court and try to go against the data, I couldn't see how a reasonable judge or jury could possibly see this as anything other than what it is.


Elders reageert ie ook wat minder inhoudelijk op https://teslamotorsclub.c...4650/page-29#post-3448407
Seriously, this thread is still a thing? Every claim here should just be met with an auto-response: "No, you're wrong. You, your wife, your husband, or whoever was in the driver seat at the time hit the wrong pedal. Accept responsibility. Get over it." *Closed*


Here's what I'll do. If you want to prove SUA, bring your car to my shop along with $10,000 cash. I'll have $10,000 cash as well. I'll pull the logs, verify they weren't tampered with, and decode them right in front of you. If you're technically minded, I'll even go over how exactly the speed and pedal position data is deciphered in Tesla logs.

If they show what I know they'll show (driver pressing the accelerator), I keep your $10,000 cash and mine and also make a public post detailing the findings.

If it shows that the brake was pressed instead, yet the car still accelerated, you take my $10,000 cash and yours. I'll additionally make an affidavit testimony of what I've uncovered and offer my services as an expert witness in any related litigation, free of charge. At your discretion, I'll post my findings publicly.

Still want to say you're right? Put your money where your mouth is and prove it.

If not, just get over it and move on.

Edit: Disclaimer - You can't win this bet. I'm 17 for 17 so far on log pulls related to Tesla SUA claims (most for insurance company contacts).
1 2 3 ... 6


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